![]()
Steven asks…
Is the Air Force PT test now harder than the Army?
I was comparing the new standards, and I think the Air Force PT test is way harder than the Army‘s. For the Air Force you must meet the minimum standards for each event, but you also have to achieve an overall score of at least 75. The minimums don’t add up to 75. All you need to do to pass the Army test is to get the minimums. Both tests consists of push-ups, sit-ups, and running. The Air Force test requires the same number of or more push-ups and sit-ups in only 1 minute that the Army requires in 2 minutes. And the Army may run 2 miles compared to the 1.5 miles in the Air Force, but you get way more time for your run in the Army.
The Air Force has always been considered the soft branch, the “chair force”. Yes, it used to be with its bike test and all that. However, the fitness standards have gotten way harder in recent years.
I am in the Air Force and passed the PT test. I did the Army test on my own and would have passed well above the minimum standards.
admin answers:
Doing the minimum pace time on the Army fitness test would put them at a low health risk in the Air Force. From the age of 17-21 a soldier must run 2 miles in 15:54. That pace in the Air force would be a high 11 minute 1.5 mile. Since the Air force PT test is done with 100 points and 60 of them coming from the run alone, a soldier running a minimum time in the Army would receive a 52.4 points right off the bat on an Air force PT test. You’re push up and sit ups only account for 20 pts on the pt test, while in the Army, they account for 200. 20 of your points come from your waist circumference. So if ones waist is 35 inches or lower, that’s a free 20 points. In the Army, it’s either go or no-go based on your height and weight, if they meet height/weight, it’s almost guaranteed that they would recieve this freeby.
So a soldier doing the minimum standards for an Army pt test would almost be at an Excellent in the Air Force.
Plus, I’m pretty sure what would qualify as a push-up in Air Force would not in the Army. Also, our sit-ups are performed with fingers interlocked behind the head where the base of the neck must pass the base of the spine. This kills the hip flexers which will have a negative effect on the run…
![]()
Maria asks…
An Army of One???
I had to sit down recently and think about the new slogan for today’s Army. Not counting the war we are currently fighting, I don’t think that the change in the slogan makes the US Army seem any better. Let alone, with the way soldiers are entering nowadays. Basic Training and AIT soldiers are taking over DS’ (which I think is total BS). Being more lenient on a soldier and pushing them through without passing the Army‘s PT standards. I’d have to say that the new slogan is just mocking what today’s modern Army is becoming. I don’t mean to offend anybody who currently is still serving because I myself am still serving. I would like to know what is on other peoples minds pertaining to the new slogan and their opinions on IET soldiers going through training.
admin answers:
Take note: not everyone has it easy in basic training and AIT these days. Initial training is becoming easier for some, it largely depends on your MOS, but there are good reasons for this. Also note that during times of war, training and standards tend to become lax – and this has been present throughout history. Hell, how about in WWII where basically all they did was hand you a rifle and tell you how to shoot it. You’re not one for tradition, are you?
EDIT: In reply to previous poster: The “Army Strong” slogan was actually a big hit within the Army. Check out the articles in the Stars & Stripes and Army Times. Also check out the new Army Strong promotional video. I’d say 9 out of 10 soldiers in my unit think it was a good change as well.
![]()
Thomas asks…
Anybody been to the newest version of Army WLC?
I’m slated for WLC this summer. (I’m National Guard so they’ll ship me to a different state for WLC. Going to Wisconsin.)
I hear that the APFT and Land Nav are out, and Drill and Ceremony and three written exams and “Army Writing” are in. They’re also supposedly teaching “Physical Readiness Training” instead of standard PT. Should be interesting:
http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/01/08/32638-changes-to-warrior-leader-course-will-help-keep-soldiers-army-strong/
Has anybody been through the new version? Can you confirm that the above is true? Any advice?
Thanks.
admin answers:
I’m mostly just jumping in to poach Best Answer. All my buddies who went to WLC at Guard Regional Training Centers last fiscal year mentioned their instructors saying new stuff was going to be in effect for FY10. However, I don’t personally know anyone who has gone lately. If I were a betting man, I’d say that’s (the new one) probably the training program you’ll be seeing though.
![]()
Chris asks…
Does the ARMY use pugil stick fighting in basic?
I know the Marines do. And now the Air Force is using them in the new 8.5 week BMT. (which I will be attending in 2 weeks). Also instead of the 2 hours of crawling through mud and stuff that they did at the old 6 week BMT, we are now going to be doing that for 4 straight days, along the way of identifying IED’s on a trail and all that good stuff. Im pretty excited about doing all of this, maybe it will wipe away the “chair force” image with the new breed of airman coming out of BMT. I mean we already take the same PT test standards in BMT as the ARMY now they got us finding IED’s and pugil stick fighting too?! Seems to me we are picking up the slack the ARMY is leaving out.
Your opinions?
My sources..
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airforcejoin/a/afbmt1.htm
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforcejoin/a/afbmtpugil.htm
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforcejoin/a/afbmtbeast.htm
admin answers:
Oh yeah they do.
Personal experience: we march our 10k First at 0600. Arrive at the training site. Use weighted dummy M16 with bayonet’s to practice killing moves for a few hours. Then we Run the Obstacle Course. After that we break up into platoons and go to the fighting circles and put on our foot ball helmets, chest plates, and the pugil sticks and beat the ever-loving garbage out of your partner. Winner goes to the fighter with the most head hits.
My opinion is EVERYONE should learn about identifying IDE’s. Its a skill that can undoubtedly save lives, regardless of your branch or job/mos.
![]()
Joseph asks…
The difference between Army and Marines?
You can’t compare the two…its like comparing apples and oranges. They have different purposes and were created for different reasons. They operate differently, organize differently, talk differently, etc.
But if you must compare the two, I would say you can liken them to a boxer in a fight.
The Marine Corps is more like a Jab. A jab is easy to use, quick, and effective. It sets you up for the knock out punch, keeps your opponent at bay, and is used more often. The Marines are smaller, and therefore easier to deploy and used more often. Quick strikes are their specialty, keeping the enemy at bay while the larger, more powerful forces come in.
The Army is more like the KO Punch. The punch is used less often, but is much more devestating and effective than the jab. You can often see it coming, but there isnt much you can do about it. A skilled boxer would be able to use his KO punches much like a jab. The Army is a much larger and complicated organization than the Marine Corps, and therefore slower to deploy, due to the enormous logistical burden it carries. But when they do deploy, they cause the most damage, and are the primary branch used in war. However, the Army isnt just a bunch of tank divisions. They have smaller units as well, much like the Marine Corps, which are able to deploy quickly and are used much like the Marine Corps.
The Army is currently undergoing an organizational transformation, and when finished will be organized and used much like the Marine Corps. Instead of being organized and deployed on a Divisional level, like the past, the Army is now looking to be organized primarily at a Brigade Level. The result of this transformation are the relatively new “Strkyer Brigades”, which are able to deploy anywhere in the world, on its own, quickly and with force.
Differences are also seen in the way the two branches operate. For example, a Staff Sergeant in the Marine Corps has much more gravity to his/her position and much more say in matters than a Staff Sergeant in the Army. Both are E-6 pay grade, yet one is treated much differently than the other.
A Marine also generally addresses another Marine by his or her full rank. In the Army, however, its not uncommon for soldiers to say “PFC” instead of “Private First Class”, or for a Staff Sergeant or Sergeant First Class to be simply addressed as “Sergeant”. This isnt meant in a way to be disrespectful, but addressing somebody by their full rank is normally reserved for more formal settings, or to distinguish between other NCO’s. It’s also largely dependant on the unit you are in. Which leads me to the next difference.
In the Marine Corps, standards usually are applied and enforced throughout the whole branch. It’s the same wherever you are assigned. It wont matter if you are a Marine reservist, or if you are assigned to Force Recon…standards are generally the same. The Army, however, because of its massive size, is different. Standards are different wherever you go. For example, somebody in a Finance MOS who went to basic at Ft. Jackson and later assigned to a Sustainment Brigade, will not be held to the same standards as somebody in the same MOS who went to basic at the same place and was later assigned to a Infantry Unit. Recruits in Ft. Jackson are also not treated the same as recruits in Ft. Benning. Basically, what is expected of you is dependant on what your MOS is and where you are assigned. As a soldier, this is something that I wish would change immediatly. I’m tired of seeing fat, undisciplined soldiers continue to fail PT tests, disrespect seniors, and lose their military bearing on a daily basis, while contining to collect the same paycheck and are treated the same way as other Soldiers, who are disciplined, do what is expected of them and more, and continue to show their military bearing.
The next difference is the way they talk. There is the obvious difference between the Army‘s “Hooah” and the Marine Corps “Oorah”. “Hooah” is used extensively by the Army, and can mean any number of things. It can be yelled as a sort of battle cry, used as a way to let others know you understand the task at hand, and even used as a noun and an adjective. A “Hooah” when used as a noun often descibes any object where one cant remember the real name of it, and can also be used to describe somebody who is “high speed” and all about jumping out of planes, getting the best PT score, shooting as many weapons as possible, etc. “Oorah” is used by the Marines, and from what I’ve seen, is definatly not used as much as “Hooah” by the Army. It’s generally reserved for conversation regarding the Marine Corps itself.
These are differences that I can think of at the top of my head. Feel free to add anymore you can think of as your answers. I’d love to hear some that I cant think of right now
No question really…just kinda bored tired of the question being asked on here “Who is better Army or Marines??”
just thought I’d just provide one big answer.
Demosthenes:
In what regard? sure its easy to put airborne troops in a plane, but its a lot more than that. No plane can travel anywhere in the world. It takes preparation, and time, and its alot more complicated. Airborne troops arent ment to deploy quickly, rather strategically
admin answers:
Soldiers seem a little more proud of their individual assignments and units. You can see this in the uniform. We have unit patches, Combat Infantryman’s Badge, Combat Medical Badge, Combat Action Badge, blue cord, branch insignia, etc. Marines don’t have patches, and only a Combat Action Ribbon. Yeah, I’m sure jarheads are proud of being in the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines. Note that name. 3rd Battalion of the 5th Marine Regiment. In the Army we have 1st Battalion, 30th Infantry Regiment. Or whatever other unit you can think of. From the outside, Marines appear as equals (while all Marine Infantry will tell you that “Every Marine a rifleman” is bullcrap, there’s a BIG difference between grunts and POGs).
The tactics are also different. Army light grunt squads have nine Soldiers in two fireteams (Rifleman, Automatic Rifleman, Grenadier, Team Leader). Marines have Rifleman, Automatic Rifleman, Assistant Automatic Rifleman, and Team Leader (grenadier). Three fireteams instead of two. We have a fourth squad (weapons), but they put all of those into a separate Weapons Company.
The opportunities are also different. Marines are generally Marines wherever they go. In the Army we have Airborne, Air Assault, Ranger, RSTA, Light, Stryker, Heavy, you name it. An Infantry company from the 82nd Airborne Division is way different than one from the 10th Mountain Division, and still different from one in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Marines would seem to be more generalist, while we are specialists, but in fact it’s the other way around. Marines won’t see much difference between 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines and 1st Battalion, 25th Marines. They all fight the “Marine” way. While Soldiers might serve time in 1st Battalion, 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment using the “Airborne” tactics, and then go on to 1st Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment and have a completely different MTOE and use entirely different tactics, the “Ranger” way. A Private probably doesn’t see most of this, but later in his career when he’s a Sergeant or Staff Sergeant, or earns a commission, he’ll see the differences in the grand scheme of things. In WWII, there were just as many Marines as Soldiers fighting in the Pacific, though that kind of fighting is their expertise, not the Army’s. At the same time, Europe was fought almost exclusively by the other services, as there is more sustained combat since it’s only one landmass instead of a hundred islands. Rangers though, can and have fought in similar theaters of war, like in Panama. The size of units is very different, a Marine battalion is much larger than an Army battalion. Marines have regiments in functionality, while the Army only has them as heritage, the battalions are actually part of a brigade and no regimental headquarters exists (there are a few exceptions, like the ACRs, 75th, etc). Marines have “Light Armored Recon” which is considered Infantry to them, while we have Cavalry Scouts. Here’s diagrams of the 1st Marine Division, 2nd Marine Division, 1st Infantry Division, 2nd Infantry Division, 3rd Infantry Division, and 82nd Airborne Division, for comparison.
Http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/1st_US_Marine_Division.png/800px-1st_US_Marine_Division.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/2nd_US_Marine_Division.png/800px-2nd_US_Marine_Division.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/1st_US_Infantry_Division.png/800px-1st_US_Infantry_Division.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/2nd_US_Infantry_Division.png/678px-2nd_US_Infantry_Division.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/3rd_US_Infantry_Division.png/800px-3rd_US_Infantry_Division.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/82nd_US_Airborne_Div.png/800px-82nd_US_Airborne_Div.png
This is reflected a bit in initial training. Army’s Basic Combat Training covers almost every basic weapon system, martial arts, communications, history, tactics, field craft, culture, customs, basic medical skills, etc. M16A4 or M4, M203, M249, M240B. Marine Recruit Training doesn’t do that, they use only the service rifle during training, and only touch on tactics. Instead, that knowledge is imparted at either Marine Combat Training or School of Infantry. Most Marines not in an Infantry MOS are actually trained at Army schools, some Navy, and a very small few Air Force. Marine officers (unless prior enlisted of course) don’t go to boot camp, though Army officers do, yet Marine officers from Navy ROTC still attend OCS. Army boot camp is 11 weeks, Marine is 12. Army OCS is 14 weeks, Marine is 10 (or 6+6 from that PLC thing). Soldiers in combat MOS training (11B school for example) don’t get nights, weekends, phones, none of that. They’re still taught by the same Drill Sergeants from day one, with boot and MOS training consolidated, and only 11B students. Marines have special instructors for MCT/SOI, with privileges. OSUT for combat MOSs is male only, while noncombatant generalized BCT is co-ed. Marine boot camp is always gender-segregated. Army Recruits get sent to BCT/OSUT depending on their MOS, Marine Recruits get sent to boot camp depending on where they enlisted from.
There’s also a lot more interaction with other services in the Corps, especially with the Navy and how Hospital Corpsmen and other medical personnel get assigned. The Corps also carries naval traditions especially in how they talk, while the Army has a more “normal” sound to it.
On the rank subject, while a Marine Staff Sergeant has more authoritative assignments than an Army Staff Sergeant, their experience levels are different. The Marine would have as much experience, and a similar assignment, as an Army Sergeant First Class. A lot of this has to do with the stupid rank of Specialist, which should be immediately abolished. If you can’t handle the responsibilities of Corporal, then you should remain a Private First Class. In fact, there is no reason to have two ranks with the same name, one should have a different name like in the Marine Corps (Private, Private First Class, Lance Corporal compared to Private, Private, Private First Class). The Army Service Ribbon should also be abolished forever and the GWOT-SM should only be awarded according to the regulation’s criteria.
Powered by Yahoo! Answers